I'm still in your prior state, where I don't share the anti-MUFC tendency. I tend to look at this from the club's perspective. They've built a massive empire that allows them to buy great players and promote their club internationally, which in turn increases demand and ensures that their stadium will be packed and their TV and merchandise rights will re-fill their coffers no matter how much they spend. For the rest of the league, it's a disaster. But from MUFC's perspective, it is a well-executed recipe for success. I have a hard time seeing what MUFC has done *wrong*. You might not like it (especially if you support any English club other than Arsenal or Chelsea). But how is it bad or evil?

Let me throw down some gauntlets. I invite correction with the gusto of a barrister in a hotel room with a hot dominatrix...

#1: MUFC is historically a great team. They may not have THE longest list of honors in England, but they have done well for many many years. They won the treble in my lifetime. How many other major clubs can say that, in any major league? Some, but not many.

#2: MUFC has developed much of their own talent. How many other major clubs can say that, in any major league? Some, but not many.

#3: MUFC have *earned* much of their worldwide following by putting themselves on the vanguard of *international* football marketing. If Ajax had been as aggressive about exploiting their brand worldwide, maybe they'd be 10x bigger (financially) than they are today. Ajax has done the opposite. In marketing-psychographic-speak, MUFC were the visionaries, while Ajax have (sadly) been the laggards.

If I were with you and Baggy in London, looking at all those fake-fans and vacuous "news" coverage of the club, I wouldn't be angry at MUFC. I'd be laughing at the silly consumers and in rapt admiration of the savvy business leaders at MUFC who have perpetrated this worldwide coup.

In my opinion, MUFC are called the "scum" because they are successful on every level. It's not like other clubs don't try, or at least want, to achieve the same things.

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Originally Posted by ajaxusa


In my opinion, MUFC are called the "scum" because they are successful on every level. It's not like other clubs don't try, or at least want, to achieve the same things.

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I have read with interest the last few posts about Man Utd and whilst there are some points that hold up under scrutiny I would say it is very difficult for anybody outside of the island to understand what really lies beneath this loathing.
Man Utd have always had a fantastically large following spread far and wide which was correctly reinforced by the sympathy vote for what the club went through in the late 50's at Munich. Ok they have exploited this via their marketing strategy but this isnt the cause of the loathing.
It is a particular British trait to love the underdog and hate the successful. Man Utd in the 90's equalled success, therefore hate Man Utd.
Also what a lot of the anti-feeling is all about is the arrogance of the club in that they believe they can do no wrong and try by whatever means to influence the match officials and the football association.
The main characters in this, Messrs Ferguson and Keane, are perceived as obnoxious people and this again loses them votes.
Then we come to the average Man Utd supporter who comes from Bournemouth or somewhere similar - yet again to the British this is an alien concept as the average fan, correctly, still has a local team mentality. Also they are arrogant beyond belief.
As to the shirts - well when Liverpool were ruling the roost, London was awash with the Anfield Red.
With regard to Beckham, he didn't court publicity for his team - it was solely for the Beckhams themselves.
My mother, was a West Ham fan and she absolutely hated the Arsenal. When asked why, she would reply that during the 1930's when they were incredibly successful she just got sick and tired of having Arsenal rammed down her throat everyday.
Now move 60 years on and you have the same reason for loathing Man Utd. They have just gone overboard with the hype.
All of the fans that loath them will quote a variety of reasons to support their view. As to why I loath them - its down to their arrogance, a certain Mr Cantona, and their so-called fans who killed a Crystal Palace fan at a cup semi-final.

As to the cup-final, both Man Utd and Millwall have some very tasty young men and then throw into the pot the home-grown talent of the Cardiff Soul Crew (reportedly the number one firm in Britain) and you have a recipe for a very nasty couple of days.

Interesting to hear Pizza 5 and SPL's views

Just finished watching PSV/Newcastle second half - what a cure for insomnia.

It was just plain awful.

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Originally Posted by Vak425
Just finished watching PSV/Newcastle second half - what a cure for insomnia.

It was just plain awful.

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I supposed p$v would have deserved a 2-1 win on the night, but they will definitely not survive in Newcastle.

Thanks VAK , I hate the scum and have been thinking of making my points but you have covered them perfectly.

I believe you do have to live here in England to truely understand the hate for this arrogant, obnoxious team, who have still only one the European cup twice.(A little team called Nottingham Forest won it twice with very little money).

One recent example of arrogance was last week when the papers reported that Ferguson was certain that Raffie was going to sign for a mere £10m.The articles basically suggesting that he only has to click his fingers and he will get his man.Sheer arrogance.

Final point , they are not a football club anymore, just a big business who are only interested in making money for their shareholders.

I could go on but think it best to just refer you to VAK's comments.

Great conversation on ManU.

As an American, I can tell you it's REAL easy to fall into the ManU fanbase especially in the 90s when I first started watching football. The were literally the only English team on. ManU v whoever they played that week. So it wasn't hard to start rooting for them cuz they were the only team that you saw week in and week out. I had no idea of any of the other players on other teams. I could name everyone on ManU though. So of course when someone asked me who I liked I would say, "Manchester United I guess." I think the same could be said for Ajax too (in the 94-95 season when they were on EVERY Sunday. Imagine if PSV or F-Word had been on as much as Ajax that year?? This site would be called www.fwordusa.com!! Okay, maybe not but you get the idea).

Even today, while it's a lot easier to see and keep track of matches, I would say ManU recieves the lion's share of coverage here in the States and I'd assume the same was true in other parts of the world. So, like Jim, I never got the anti-ManU sentiment....

UNTIL...

Aveslacker made the Yankees analogy. Than it was like a light bulb going on in my head. NOW I understand the hatred and if the ManU fans are anything like Yankee fans than I can empathizes with other clubs' supporters. I feel your pain

Since there is a general footbal thread I figured this would be the place to post about the 14 year old American Freddy Adu.

Well he made his debut in MLS this past Saturday here at D.C.'s RFK Stadium for my hometown DC United. He played about 30 minutes and didn't really distinguish himself (a few nifty passes but generally invisible). While he didn't look out of place, he definitely looked tentative and a step or two behind the pace of play. I truly think he has the tools to be great but he will need time (a season or two) to adjust to playing against professionals. It's a great story though and definitely something to keep an eye on over the course of the next few years.

I will say this though, the atomosphere at RFK (not a great football venue) was the best I've ever seen here in the States. It was electric! I was lucky enough to be on the field for the match (a perk of my job) and I can tell you the crowd was deafening from the time Freddy started warming up until he entered the match. As he ran on the field, *I* was nervous and shaking and I'm not the 14 year old boy who everyone had come to see (not including the millions who watched on TV). Factoring that in, I thought his debut was a successful one and I feel lucky that I get to watch him mature in my own backyard.

I couldn't help thinking though...I wonder in what Ajax team he'd be playing in if he were in Amsterdam (Young Ajax? Ajax A1?)

I posted :-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vak425
Just finished watching PSV/Newcastle second half - what a cure for insomnia.

It was just plain awful.

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Interesting discussion....

Point #1
Man Ure are no different from Juve in Italy, Real in Spain, Yankees in MLB, or....dare I say it.....Ajax in Holland.

The biggest fish is always criticised in the pond. We may think we never get the "rub of the green", but plenty would disagree, and we may not think we are arrogant but plenty would disagree.

Point #2
SPL....please, please, please don't darken this website with the name Nottingham F-word EVER AGAIN! (I speak as a Notts County/Ajax fan ;o))

Point #3
Cantona (beyond stimulating an interest in karate), was instrumental in opening English eyes (together with Bergkamp and Zola) to the fact that foreigners could add excitement and skill to the English game.....he may have been a pretentious idiot....but he knew how to play football.

Point #4
P$V were REALLY UNLUCKY.........

Well done Vak.You are a very wise and clever man.You covered the "why manU are hated" perfectly.I wish I was as elequent as you......but im not....They are the scum of the earth,pompous,arrogant,sneering,fasetey,cheeting,u gly(Phillip Neville)ponsey(Ronaldo)drug taking(Rio.......No I dont have to attend a drugs test like everybody else,I play for Man u)racist(Gary Neville)hairy(Ryan Giggs)evil nasty pikey(Keane).................I could go on.....believe me I could go on and on.....but worst of all Ferguson........after hes been interviewed(where the person asking the questions has been told before hand what to ask,nothing that might upset sir Alex)he always says to the interviewer"well done"like hes been a good boy.How he insists his watch is right and the ref just has to keep playing untill united score when they are behind,how when it does go wrong its always the refs fault,(only two penaltys given to the away side at old traff.in the league in the last TEN years....come on,its outrageous).....How he never sees anything a united player does wrong,but then has 20/20 vision when its the other way round.......

I am not a great lover of Martin Keown(Keown,hes got a monkeys head,hes got a monkeys head),but he went up in my estimation after the way he jumped all over and goaded Van Nist.when he missed that last minute penalty in the battle of old Trafford.......I think I need to go and have a lie down for a little while and think about the Porto goal that knocked them out of the champions league,but I will be back.......are we allowed to use 4 letter words on this forum?

How many times has Ferguson "Tapped up"players.....its ok for them to do it They are Man united....never mind what uefa say we can do what we want.

Things you will never hear the charmless celtic nurk say-

"We had an off day,they deserved to win,it happens in football"

"I thought the ref had a really good game"

"Yes I saw Roy Keanes Two footed tackle and we will be taking disiplinary action against him"

"We think hes a really good player and we know we will have to spend big money to get him,and we will be contacting his club about signing him"

"I think Rios ban was fair bearing in mind how important keeping drugs out of football is"

Then theres one of Old Traffords favourite (bastard) sons Mr.oh-ah Cuntonah.Not content with kicking the shit out of the Crystal Palace players he decides to start on the crowd as well......Gets an unbelieveably lean ban and Ferguson thinks its harsh and wants to appeal!!!!Its ok to commit GBH if you are a man u player,and anyway he was goaded by the supporter.

And how many times a season do they launch a new kit?They would do it at half time in every bloody game if they could.

What about Peter Kenyon,hes the bloke whos approaching other managers behind Ranieries back and treating him like shit...where does he come from, Man u.of course.